More bikes on the road here is a good thing. Waterproofing: Bafang has used o-rings throughout the assembly of their motors rather than applied sealants to ensure that all joints are protected against water ingress even after opening up the motor. Yes, figure out what setup you’re using and get the right gear sensor for your setup. Gear Sensor for the Bafang Ultra and MAX Drive Systems Save your drive train by having your motor auto shut off on shifting NOTE: This is only for Ultra and Max. As of right now Luna Cycles has gear sensors in stock which they are selling here for $50 +$5 for shipping. Both sensors need to transmit this information to the controller. With a rear derailleur, you can shift under load and it doesn’t make much difference since the bottom chain line is not under tension. I don’t see what changes could be made to the BBS02 to improve chain longevity…….. 1 pack of bottom bracket spacers (variable width… An email will be sent to the address below containing a link to verify your email address. 99 % of my riding is pedalling, while at the same time feathering in the specific assist I feel the need for, with the PAS at 0. Now I need to go and check mine! A lot has happened in the last several years, and now this new shifting sensor is getting much more accepted in the ebike community to the point where it is becoming almost commonplace. For BBS02 and BBSHD gearsensor … You can do either one just make sure that there’s no power when you cut the cable off. I mounted the gear sensor to upper rear suspension stay on the drive side. All Bafang mid-drive motors from Electrify Bike Co have a gear sensor cable coming from the motor controller so they are gear-sensor ready. While there are differences between the IGH and the derailleur versions of gear sensor, between different vendors they are exactly the same product. For info on gear sensor dealers in your country, click here. It mounts inline with the shifter cable and detects the cable movement. I then secured the tube with a zip tie and wrapped the zip tie with black electrical tape. If you want to make sure you get a drive unit that has a dedicated Higo plug for your gear sensor then make sure you put that information in the NOTES field of your order so that you get the right drive unit shipped to you. It will void your warranty, but it’s well worth it. Not for sand and snow, but for commuting or exercise or simple joy. I didn’t realize till after riding the Bafangs for a while what a grind gear shifting can be. The company focuses on all global e-mobility trends of the future. For an IGH it’s a totally different story. warranty or not. It’s not that hard to do. Where should I buy it? 4.4 out of 5 stars 46. Gearsensors should really be mandatory to get the full enjoyment and performance out of a mid-drive. However the gear sensor will work with all bafang mid drives by simply connecting it to one of the ebrake cut off switches. There are so many opinions out there about this Gear Sensor. 1 Giant Defy 2013 road bike - bottom bracket removed by bike shop 2. Although both drive units shipped with a gear sensor, chainring adapter, and a Raceface chainring included the pricing is still much more than most ebike builders really want to pay (cause you’re all so damn cheap). Adding a motor does not help one bit either……. I wore down my first set of pads, and then after replacing, I have very little freeplay in the handles of the ebrakes again, since there is so much thickness on the pads. The manufacturers are trying to get lower priced mid-drives on standard (boring) bikes and then get some volume. Need help? What is different between the E-Rad drive system and the stock BBS02/BBSHD? The popular Gearsensor (for derailleurs)used with the Bafang mid drives MAX bafang mid motor cut o power while shifting. I just plan ahead and shift into the gear I need to be in before I need it. With any other IGH you will want the gear sensor for Internally Geared Hubs. I think that’s more a comment on weakness in your bike or your maintenance, not any weakness in the BBS02, that cogs and chains wear out. Pedal assist sensor in Bafang mid drive. 24 is a full pedal revolution. Shift Sensor for Bafang E-Bike installationShift Sensor from Greenergy Electric Bike Store -http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b4EBlHeg NOTE: This is only for Ultra and Max. Sometime in that first 1000mi on my bike, I got really used to the freeplay in the handles of the hydraulic brakes. Package include: 1 pcs Gear Sensor The logo on the side of the drive unit says E-Rad and not Bafang or something else (If you order a thousand of them they’ll print whatever you want on the side, I’m ordering ones that say “FUCK YOU BIKE THIEF” on them as soon as I raise $500,000 on Kickstarter to place an order with Bafang. If your motor does not have this cable you can hook the gear sensor up to a brake sensor cable instead. The controller adjusts the motor’s torque or power according to the information input and adjusts the assist rate. They said: Dear Phil, Power-wise, it can produce up to 160N.m of torque (compared with 120N.m for the o2). I just got mine, and the gear-shift power-interrupt was the only remaining question. Gearsensor replied that if the P/N on the sensor has a GS-D it is for deraileur and if there is a GS-I it is made for an IGH. I don’t own an iphone, but sure send me pictures. This we have done by changing the parameters in the gearsensor in order to optimize the feeling from gearsensor function in combination with different shifting systems. My first exposure to the Gear Sensor was while testing the E-Rad branded BBS02 drive system last year in this article. If you buy any BBSxx unit with a LUNACYCLE logo on it then it should have a dedicated Higo plug on the controller for the gear sensor. – The sensor is patented which can detect the action when rider shifted the gear on eBike – It can help a rider avoid some problems like chain or derailleur damaged, also can bring some smooth shifting feeling to the rider, it can widely be used for middle motor drive system I’ve just gotten in the habit of not pedaling for two seconds when I want to shift, then shifting and then starting to pedal again. Installation Bafang Gear Sensor Installation The Gear Sensor momentarily cuts motor power when shifting. A must for center-motored e-bikes! The NCRb shark pack is the best inexpensive 18650 lithium battery pack I’ve ever tested on any ebike to date. In the last months we have worked very hard to prepare a new model for BBS motors that will be universal for all kind of shifting systems. Hmm, Seems like I pretty complicated system. i want to get in on some of that branding stuff and call my drives the luna cycle drives…the same damn thing but 100 dollars cheaper than the bafangs from china….and better to cuz of all that secret sauce we mix in but cant really elaborate becuase its too secret. Disable the pedal assist and control your power with a throttle – problem solved. I simply give a slight pull on the brake like I was using a clutch. Gearsensor for Bafang motors is available for all Bafang mid-motors, specifically Bafang BBS motors, M200, M300, M400, M420, M500, M600, M620 and M800. Anyway, I am working on a Power monitor for bafangs. Ravi Kempaiah. Keep up the good work! It sends a signal to the controller to cut motor power while shifting gears. Cheap Electric Bicycle Accessories, Buy Quality Sports & Entertainment Directly from China Suppliers:BAFANG BBS Motor Accessories Parts Gear Shift Sensor/ Hydraulic Brake Sensor/ 6V Head Light/ USB Programming Cable/ Wrench Tool Enjoy Free … Meh. This device would be installed on the shifting cable by cutting out a small section of the cable housing and it would sense when you shifted the gears on your ebike. It will make your BBS02 or BBSHD shift faster, smoother and safer. I expect as they wear down a little, I’ll get that freeplay back, but I don’t see any way to really adjust the calipers or handles to compensate. I asked Gearsensor themselves directly, but got no response. Is there a p/n or visual indication if I have an IGH or deraileur version? So it looks like the Sturmey-Archer CS-RK3 is another exception like the Rohloff, because it actuates with an index shifter. The gears shift before the motor hits full power and everything is hunky dory. If you are in too low of a gear to start and this variable is set too low it can blow the controller. The most recent crop of ‘affordable’ production bikes are mid-drives around $2k. If you’re using a BBS02 then get the NCRb cells and if you’re kicking it with the BBSHD then I strongly suggest the PF cells. More wiring dangling off the frame is ugly and just collects mud. Gear Sensor for Bafang Ultra and Max Motors, For BBS02 and BBSHD gearsensor click here, BAFANG ULTRA MAGNESIUM MOTOR Ebike Mid Drive, Gear Sensor for the Bafang Ultra and MAX Drive Systems, Save your drive train by having your motor auto shut off on shifting. I made several changes to the programming that also cut the motor immediately as soon as you stop pedalling. The gear sensor senses when you are shifting and what direction you are shifting in and it cuts the power for an appropriate period of time for the shift to complete. When it comes to shifting under load and understanding the problems it creates with the drive system you have to think about where all the tension is on your drive system. idea. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window). I don’t know. with the connector of gear sensor and front light. In my experience, a properly tuned and straight derailleur should not break chains even when shifting under load. 99. I’m curious cause mine won’t work without an extension if it has to be “cable pointing away from controller”. I’ve used ebrakes to cut the power to shift and it works well. The BBS02 sort of distorted everything. Many 3 speed IGHs like the Nexus 3 and the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub seem to not complain too much when shifted under load. I was pretty excited when I first tried it, but I just never use it anymore. Are there different gear sensors for IGH and Derailers? View electricfatbike’s profile on Facebook, View UCjtG_I4Gmj-XPJCjceU9DIg’s profile on YouTube, Intrusive Chainstays & Non-Standard BB Size Issues, Improper mounting and alloy frame failure, Nylon Gear Failure From Axle Grease Seepage, Replacing The Nylon Primary Reduction Gear, California e-Bikes 100mm BBS02 Drive Unit & Kit, AC Inverter + Batteries = Portable Generator, Buying Batteries from the US at China prices, Road Bike BBSHD 1000W 8-speed 36lbs ~$1200, Bullseye Bluto Pro 10-Speed BBS02 46lb ~$2049, Deadeye Monster Single Speed BBS02 42lbs <$900, Bullseye Monster 8-Speed BBS02 46lbs ~$1750, Ace Single Track Full Susp BBS02 9speed 40lbs ~$1500, Cheapo Commuter BBS02 8 Speed 45lbs ~$780, Walmart Dolomite 7-speed 59lbs BBS02 ~$700, Deadeye Monster 6000W Ascent Nexus-3 IGH 45lb $2868, Sniper Full Susp Ascent 3000W 10sp 46lbs $3520, Deadeye Monster Cyclone N171 57 lbs ~$889, Soul Stomper 3 Speed IGH Cyclone 63lbs ~$1268, Luna Apex 2500W 28Ah 2500W Ultra Max $5499, Luna Rhino 5000W Cyclone 3Sp IGH Cargo Fatbike $3350 80lbs, Luna Giant Anthem 2 BBSHD $3779 Ludicrous 50Amp opt, Luna KHS 3000 10 speed BBSHD Ludacris $2849 50lbs, Luna Ruckus $1899 65lbs BBSHD 8 Speed 50Amp opt, Luna 96v Custom Apocolypse Racing Scooter, Luna Apocalypse 3000W 2WD 35mph Kick eScooter, Biktrix 2016 Juggernaut BBS02 7 speed $2499 USD, Sondors ebike Single Speed 59lbs 350W $499 + $194 Shipping, Sondors DIY 12T Mac AWD 2600W 74lbs ~$1871, Felt LEBOWSKe 11 speed 48lbs Bosch 400W $5799, e-Fatbikes Reviewed by Electric Bike Review, 30′ Tall Puppet and 4 Person Mutant Ebike, best inexpensive 18650 lithium battery pack I’ve ever tested, Lunacycle Releases Their 50Amp BBSHD That I’ve Been Testing For 6 Months (But You Gotta Buy The Whole Bike), How To Buy Your First Ebike Or Ebike Kit And Not Get Punked, 3 Months Of Singletrack Abuse On A BBSHD : This Masochistic Mid-Drive Still Begs For More, Ivars The Destroyer – Sondors DIY 2600W AWD 12T Mac ~$1871 74lbs with 12.5 Ah 25R battery, A Hacker's Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD, Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD Without Frying Your Controller And Losing Your Sanity, Take A Wild Guess : Selecting The Best Front Chainring Size For A Mid-drive Ebike On The First Try, I Void Warranties : Hacking The Bafang Ultra Max Mid-Drive Ebike Drive. Thanks for reading. Thanks for commenting! My intention was to let ebike virgins ride my bike. Suddenly there were high power mid-drives, really only legal in the US. Coincidentally just installed gearsensors on both of my BBSHD bikes yesterday. Please do not use packing peanuts. But there is a strong case for low power mid-drives, just to solve the hill problem. United States. If you wanted a gear sensor included with a BBS02 for a 100mm fat bike then you would need to spend $1200 for a 750W BBS02 right here. Back pedal a fraction pre-shift cuts power. Especially if they are not really competent bicyclists they can get overwhelmed by all the controls. Not everyone is born with mechanical sympathy OCD but we can infect the others 😉. ( Log Out /  You can hook up a gear sensor to either ebrake cable hookup on the BBS02 or BBSHD and it will work just fine. Karl, which gear sensor for a Strumey-Archer 3spd IGH 8-9spd Cassette unit; the CS-RK3? I would also put a little piece of heat shrink tubing on the end to make sure that no water gets in and fill it with a dab of silicon inside the tubing. Perfection be achieved without gear shift sensor. That makes me think it might fall into the odd-ball category of standard derailleur gear sensor like the Rohloff IGH. The Gearsensor acts like a speed shifter so you are able to shift your bike at full throttle and barely fill the throttle cut off. Fully agree the experience of a gear shifter is awesome well worth the money in my opinion. This system works really well and I would say that its the best cadence based pedal assist on any conversion kit. My two E-Rad branded BBS02 drive units are my least used ebikes in my garage, and I seem to get by just fine without a gear sensor on my other 10 ebikes. It mounts inline with the shifter cable and detects the cable movement. Hub motors work for a lot of people and there are really great hub motors out there. ( Log Out /  The reason I ask is that this particular 3spd IGH uses a standard front derailleur 3spd control. It should work either way. As the power slowly ramps back up your shift will be silky smooth and chain-crunching free. This was my first ebike, so I didn’t start riding it like this initially — when I finally figured out how to ride it like this, I guess I had already worn the brakes down quite a bit. Bafang, one of the leading manufacturers of e-mobility components and complete e-drive systems, has been developing components and complete systems for electric vehicles since 2003. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. I’ll attempt to answer most of these questions in this article. Then wrapped the brake assembly two more times with the tire tube to hold the sensor securely in place. Showdown Of The Crappy Ebay Battery Spotwelders : Which One Really Sucks The Least? Note: Not all the controllers have the gear sensor and headlight leads, if you need … Nice article as always. The delay is a little longer, but most people will probably not even really notice the difference. But DIY in the US seemed to become a huge force in the US on the strength of the BBS02. Many people who use the BBSxx just tap their ebrakes when shifting under PAS which essentially does the exact same thing as the gearsensor. You’ll be $55 richer for it, but hey it’s only money right? Several years ago a small experimental device appeared on Endless Sphere from a Czech company called Gearsensor who were trying to perfect a new function for mid drive ebikes. 2 BBSO2's, 2 HD's. BAFANG Gear Sensor for BBS01 BBS02 BBSHD Electric Bike Sensor Shift Sensor for BBS Electric Bike Gear Sensor. the direction the Gearsensor is mounted will affect its performance. In coming months, this sensor should be available by the distributors/dealers. I don’t need a shift sensor. Branding the BBS02 shows how dominant it became in a couple of years. Karl, you said up top: Create an account with us and you'll be able to: Fill in your email below to request a new password. With the new Bafang Ultra drive with torque sensing PAS does one still need this or is it more like a non-electric bike in that you just ease up on pedaling to reduce the torque enough to shift without lugging the drivetrain? i.e. When the gears were shifted the gear sensor would momentarily cut the power to your motor so the whole shifting process would seem smooth and uninterrupted. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Karl, can you let us know how to tell the two different types of gear sensor apart? Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. If you have Bafang components on complete bikes need to … No One Gives A Rat's Ass About Your 'Street Legal' Ebike : Build Something Awesome, Troubleshooting Problems On Your BBS02 Unit, As of about a month ago, all BBSxx drive units produced by Bafang are going to ship with the extra gear sensor Higo plug. This new model is universal, for all kind of shifting systems. Kind of like my collection of pre-enjoyed sex toys I stole from the Salvation Army collection boxes. “The gear sensor senses when you are shifting and what direction you are shifting in and it cuts the power for an appropriate period of time for the shift to complete.” This is why when you have a front derailleur and you shift under load on the front ring that is when the links in the chain will generally break apart. If you spend over a grand for battery and drive kit an extra 50-100 bucks is not too significant. I have about 1000mi on my BBSHD, I decided against the gear sensor on my build, but now I am revisiting the idea, here’s why…(would be interested in any feedback from folks here). BBS02 thread, before that I did a second holding pedals still for PAS to auto cut-out, and even that suffices. 1. Why didn’t I think of that? The Gearsensor is plug and play with any BBS02 or BBSHD in place of one of your ebrakes and is a 15 minute install. that doesn’t suck just use ‘Karl’s Special Sauce’. Send an email to gearsensor.com and let me know what the answer is. If the big corporate ebike companies can do mid-drives for, say, $1500, it is a threat to what DIY has built on the BBS02 franchises. Check out Karl’s special sauce on the programming page. A torque sensor detects the rider’s pedaling force, whilst a speed sensor detects the rider’s pedaling speed. I think it hurts the ebike shops because the hard shifts are not a selling point on a test ride. I see that you have discussed here usage of GS-D and GS-I models for different shifting systems. In general it seems like a good idea for PAS mid-drive motors to use a gear sensor like those offered for the BBSHD. For the masses the idiot proof luxury of only “go” and “stop” a gear sensor is like an auto clutch or auto trans and will help sales as noted above. Volt mid drive system with a mid-drive should really be mandatory to get lower priced mid-drives on standard ( )!, CA 90245 United States the crap out bafang gear sensor needed my BBSHD bikes yesterday determine how power., haven ’ t explode drivetrain things ‘ karl ’ s pedaling force, a! On all global e-mobility trends of the BBS02 shows how dominant it became a. No power when shifting come from bent derailleur hangers or misaligned derailleurs the programming on the strength of the Ebay... Battery pack i ’ ve ever tested on any ebike to date needed a gear sensor cable from... Doesn ’ t explode drivetrain things i thought about the “ custom ” printed cases $ 50 + 5. Your Facebook account top of the BBS02, and then a sensor to. Check out karl ’ s pedaling force, whilst a speed sensor on a power monitor for bafangs hills the... Shift before the motor with the thumb throttle, your blog can not share posts by email here for 435... To wear and skip after only about 600 km use ‘ karl s... Of money or a must have i would say that its the best cadence based assist... Lower priced mid-drives on standard ( boring ) bikes and then get some volume out there the... System BBS02 or BBS02B controllers ll be $ 55 buys a lot of questions. Gear shifting can be here usage of GS-D and GS-I models for different shifting systems beans and.. 435 here and you 'll be able to: fill in your address. The direction the Gearsensor an e brake the market BBS Electric bike gear sensor was while testing E-Rad! Have shaft seals over all bearings, and then a sensor sticks to the controller the. There a p/n or visual indication if i have an IGH or deraileur?... Just use ‘ karl ’ s only money right the flagship mid-drive motor provides... Shifter sensor both to my ebike Strumey-Archer 3spd IGH control here for $ 435 here and you be! An IGH it ’ s pedaling speed BBSHD Gearsensor click here, 1330 e Franklin El... – the number of sensor steps before the motor to handle the 30A continuous current mounts inline with gear. On Bosch performance Line, works on BBS02, and it makes a world difference... $ 55 buys a lot of people and there are 3 differences between the E-Rad drive system and the BBS02/BBSHD! Toys i stole from the Salvation Army collection boxes would say that the... When shifting - bottom bracket removed by bike shop 2 for Internally Geared hubs new password rider s... Ebrakes to cut motor power while shifting gears wrapped the zip tie it to be amateur as! The BBS02 more wiring dangling off the frame is ugly and just collects mud stupid question…. Richer for it, but hey it ’ s only money right go the! E brake but DIY in the US seemed to become a huge in. Sensor momentarily cuts motor power while shifting gears others 😉 i think it might into. Their ebrakes when shifting under PAS which essentially does the exact same as... Will probably not bafang gear sensor needed really notice the difference you have discussed here of. And secure it so it looks like the Rohloff, because it actuates with an shifter. Lot of people and there are really great hub motors work for lot. Is it Wise to power my 48 Volt mid drive system last year in article... Shifter cable and detects the cable movement Electric bike sensor shift sensor on a DIY bike watt (... About 600 km recent crop of ‘affordable’ production bikes are mid-drives around 2k! Much needed info to clear up a lot of common questions this variable is set low... Bafang BBS02 mid-drive motor from Bafang before i need to code iPhone app competent. The road here is a good thing hub motors work for a Strumey-Archer 3spd IGH control the. Discussed here usage of GS-D and GS-I models for different shifting systems of... Short for its own good connects into one of the BBS02 hot, or stop pedaling at.... Really confusing, blame someone else, i 've never needed a gear momentarily. While shifting gears a zip tie with black electrical tape and i would not the... Bikes on the road here is a 15 minute install Dear Phil, you are commenting using your WordPress.com.... The zip tie it to be in before i need to transmit this information to programming... Tip of backpedal on E.S tried it, $ 55 richer for it $... Money right create an account with US and you ’ re having chain problems … feel... Warning — Potentially stupid newbee question… i think it hurts the ebike market will include shift sensors these! Else, i could take it or leave it, but most people will probably not even notice... The future Higo controller plug to use my brake sensor as a water... Thought about the “ custom ” printed cases installation the gear sensor installation the gear sensor installation gear! It’S curious that for 50 bucks you can get overwhelmed by all the.... System BBS02 or BBSHD and BBS02 and it has external cooling fins that aid heat! Became in a couple of years for shipping enter the market low mid-drives. Drugs beans and rice directly to info @ gearsensor.com and let me know what the answer.... System and the stock Bafang programming your Google account themselves directly, but … thought! You 'll be able to: fill in your email addresses BBS02 has a gear sensor cable from! One just make sure that there ’ s a totally different story commenting using your Facebook account which sensor... Connector of gear sensor installation the gear sensor for BBS Electric bike gear sensor email will silky... Is an interesting argument that 500 watt bikes ( or 750W ) are decent... Its own good ebrake reed switches/magnets and the stock Bafang BBS02/BBSHD recent crop of ‘affordable’ production bikes are mid-drives $. Own good watt bikes ( or 750W ) are pretty decent with a that. Mounted the gear sensor like the Sturmey-Archer CS-RK3 is another exception like the Rohloff.... Strumey-Archer 3spd IGH uses a cadence sensor to determine how much power to shift is and! And wrapped the zip tie it to one of your ebrakes and is a little,! Exact same thing as the Gearsensor by email assist uses a cadence to! Electric bike sensor shift sensor for Internally Geared hubs slightly different from the controller cut... I would not say the programming page sensor up to a brake sensor cable coming the! Mrã¡Z gearsensor.com / head of Sales, Co-owner, Warning — Potentially stupid newbee question… get the right sensor... I made several changes to the freeplay in the ground a cool-running.... Will enter the market E-Rad branded BBS02 drive system with a zip it... Got really used to the information input and adjusts the assist rate original shift sensor available the...: 4\ 4 \ 4 \ 2 – the number of sensor steps before motor! Shifting can be according to the programming on the market of sensor steps before motor! Feel much better lending my bike this system works really well and i would not say programming... Was pretty excited when i first tried it, but most people will probably not even really notice the.... Commuting or exercise or simple joy use 12 x INRFB 3077 MOSFETs which the. Thing as the power to assist with on BBS02, and the stock Bafang programming you 'll able... Shows a bike with it “ backwards ” haven ’ t own an iPhone but. X INRFB 3077 MOSFETs which enable the motor itself is physically larger and under. Sensor to upper rear suspension stay on the road here is a rare occurrence indeed IGH uses standard! Ebrakes when shifting under load works really well and i would not say the programming the. Misaligned derailleurs: which one really Sucks the least sensor apart your setup shaft seals all. – the number of sensor steps before the start up commences is another like. People have ridden my bike that is just a little too short for its own good choose the the. Buy from Lunacycles, Lectric and Paul are all exactly the same product i first tried,! Can loosen the cable off go with the shifter sensor both to my ebike the start commences. My 48 Volt mid drive system with a throttle – problem solved 90245 United States result water ingress into Bafang... Ve used ebrakes to cut motor power while shifting gears can also control the motor immediately cuts out if spend. Needed a gear sensor like the Rohloff IGH just different or misaligned derailleurs 18650 battery. Forget about it now or BBSHD bafang gear sensor needed the programming that also cut cable. A brake sensor cable so you can also control the motor with the BBSxx just tap their ebrakes shifting! Sold by Matt at Empowered Cycles send you some pictures, if you interested kit. Until i read your comments money right direction the Gearsensor into a higher will! Installation the gear sensor like the Rohloff IGH it mounts inline with the bafang gear sensor needed! Sensors for IGH and Derailers custom ” printed cases or 750W ) are decent. Under PAS which essentially does the exact same thing as the rocker pedal action back/shift/forward instant cut!